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Nathan Benefield posted on 1/1/2010 6:44:00 PM
Russell,
No, this is not a CF exclusive, but was submitted by Gov. Thornburgh to us as well as to newspapers statewide.
Jason Beigh posted on 1/1/2010 3:00:00 PM
I believe that government causes more chaos than it eliminates. If you need examples of government chaos, blunders, and inefficiency just let me know and I will be happy to supply you with an endless list. Lack of government in the realm of transportation would cause no more chaos than the lack of government involvement has caused in other arenas.
I am not sure what type of "non-standardization" you are talking about, but I cant see any such argument having validity. I'll use the computer industry as a comparison. There is no government standard for things like USB, Fire Wire, 802.11 (B,G, or N), RAM, Hard Drives, etc. yet you can purchase items from multiple vendors from all over the world, across international borders, that all work together and help one customize their computer for their individual needs. Even the polar divide between Apple and Microsoft has been bridged without government intrusion. I am currently typing on a Mac that can (and sometimes does) run windows. This happened because the computer industry listened to what consumers wanted, and because they wanted to purchase the fastest best for the least amount of money. I would hate to see where technology would be if we relied on the government to develop the standards.
Though the world of transportation is quite different, it is no more complicated. Companies would have a motive to work together to solve problems and make things standardized. If roadways were built and maintained by private companies or organizations, efficiency would increase because there would be a profit motive. Government has a nearly endless supply of money, and has little reason to be efficient. With a private system we would see longer lasting road surfaces, better road quality, and less interruption of services, because this is what their consumers and investors would demand. Simply put, they would be forced to provide a better product at a lower price. Government has no such incentive.
As far as Government already being "involved in TV, radio, telephone etc through the granting of licenses, management of the electromagnetic spectrum and whatnot" this is more of a hinderance that a help. Government makes it impossible for the common man to start a TV or Radio station by making the license unobtainable for anyone without deep pockets. This provides an unfair monopoly for the stations that do exist. Fortunately "New Media" and the internet with things like podcasts and YouTube are starting to even the playing field. We are now able to share thoughts with the rest of the world, like we are doing on this website. Unfortunately, the government wants to stick their hands into this medium as well.
Quite frankly, there is nothing I have ever been able to think of that government can do that can't be done better and more efficiently by the private sector. (other than waste money and make life difficult for the rest of us) I'll put my money on the private sector over government any time.
Tony Gray posted on 12/31/2009 7:58:00 PM
Interesting point of view Jason, but I can't see how government can completely eliminate themselves from the transportation process. It would result in nonstandardization far beyond what we have now and the resultant chaos would be detrimental to interstate commerce. It is already crazy with the patchwork of Interstates, US Highways, state roads, county roads, township roads etc. Yes, this is the result of the outmoded governmental structure that is in place in the Commonwealth, but putting it entirely in the hands of the invisible hand takes deregulation a bit far.
Government is already involved in TV, radio, telephone etc through the granting of licenses, management of the electromagnetic spectrum and whatnot. Again, without regulation and oversight there would be anarchy.
I do not think that government should RUN most things, but they need to set the ground rules. The Turnpike Commission, while perhaps a needed entity in the late 30s and early 40s, has perhaps outlived its usefulness. I take the PATPK constantly, and until the recent major construction projects, I could not fathom where all the toll money was going.
I used communication for roads because we used the term lines of communication when I was in the military. Sorry, should have clarified that.
Russell posted on 12/31/2009 7:53:00 PM
I was referring to the Thornburgh piece.
Was this piece written by Governor Thornburgh exclusively for this website? I can find any references to another source.
Jason Beigh posted on 12/31/2009 7:19:00 PM
Russell, my post is simply my personal opinion based upon my knowledge of how government works, and my general feelings of private versus public funding for nearly everything the government is involved in. I am in no way affiliated with the Commonwealth Foundation.
As far as Tony's comments are concerned, I think he points out exactly why government should not be involved in transportation...PERIOD!
As I previously stated, there is no need for government to provide any sort of mechanism for transportation (or as Tony refers to it, "communication"). If communication was an inherent duty of government, that would mean that government would run newspapers, TV, radio, phone companies, and the internet as well. I don't think anyone in their right mind would want that. That sounds like the socialist/communist model to me. Both large and small private companies are doing a fabulous job of providing all of these types of communication, with thousands of options for every American to consume daily. I predict these private providers would be doing even better if it were not for government interference.
That does however bring up a good point though. If communication through all these other methods is possible without the intrusion of government, why can't a private transportation infrastructure be a viable option. After all, I would think that transportation would be the most essential method of communication if you want to categorize it as such. Transportation is essential to all parts of living and commerce. Anything so crucial to our everyday being could (and would) certainly be accomplished by the private sector, better and cheaper. As I see it, I trust the private sector with this vital task much more than I trust the government. Government is riddled with corruption and personal agendas and has no one to answer to. The free market on the other hand must provide a valuable service at a reasonable cost or risk being going of business, or being beaten by a competitor. (As an interesting side bar, most of the roadways in the east, pre-date any sort of government involvement. Many of these thoroughfares began as trading routs between small towns and farming communities. These early roads were spawned by need, not government development.)
As far as public transportation is concerned, I agree with Tony. There is no reason why any public transit should be supplemented or funded by government. The plain and simple truth is that the public transportation in PA would not exist without state funding. I suggest that if there were a need for such modes of transportation, the private sector would be able to accomplish the job better than government. The plain truth is that in most parts of the state, the demand for public transportation simply does not exist. Those for us who do not want, need or use public transit, should not supplement the people who do. If you benefit from it, pay a fair price to use it. Don't expect "transportation welfare" to get you from point A to point B, especially if you are making a six figure income commuting into the city.
Anyone who feels that government should provide either the service of building roads, or providing public transit should think carefully. Expecting such service to be provided from taxation is no different than agreeing that carjacking is an acceptable way to get from place to place. Honestly, there is almost no difference... either the government puts a gun to your head through requiring you to pay taxes (yes, if you do not pay your taxes, a man with a gun will eventually show up at your door and cart you off to jail), or a stranger puts a gun to your head and tells you where he wants to go. I think I would rather take my chance with the stranger. I may actually have a chance to win against a single person, whereas you will never beat the monster called government.
Tony Gray posted on 12/31/2009 3:04:00 PM
Not sure I agree with Jason on this point. I believe that providing the ability for communication (roads being a major one) is a primary function of government. Since the road network is used my more than those who live or work in the affected area, allowing locals to determine when or if to resurface, rebuild or modernize the infrastructure may not suit the community as a whole.
My issue is how transportation funds have constantly been funneled away from the place of greatest benefit or need (highways) and shipped to mass transit solutions. Should mass transit be funded? Surely, but on a regional basis. SEPTA is purely that South Eastern Pennsylvania. It should be funded and operated entirely by Philadelphia and the counties contingent thereupon. Taking tax dollars, from say Potter County to throw at SEPTA is insane. That taxpayer will NEVER see the benefit of that expenditure.
People say that everybody benefits from mass transit spending. I say balderdash. I do not have the opportunity to use Rabbit Transit from my home in York County to my office in Harrisburg because of their schedule and location. Yet, I have to pay taxes to support that. Folks say that reduces the numbers of vehicles on 83...really? I bet all the cars taken off the road would pass by in mere seconds.
Again, I am NOT anti-mass transit. It is just the costs of those systems should be born by those who use them. There aren't any means tests given to SEPTA riders, yet the poor guy working for 30K a year in Monroe County has a portion of his tax dollars funneled to SEPTA to subsidize the regional rail trip of a multi-millionaire's trip down the main line to Center City.
Insanity.
The state needs to get a better handle on revenue streams and get them to match the needs. Eliminate the Johnstown Flood Tax types of legacy costs. Make sure fuel taxes go to ROADS and BRIDGES, not wasted away on unrelated issues.
Russell posted on 12/30/2009 8:16:00 PM
Was this written exclusively for the Commonwealth Foundation? I can't seem to find any references or citations in this post.
Jason Beigh posted on 12/29/2009 3:01:00 PM
This article is a perfect example why not only should the Turnpike Commission be abolished, but the Turnpike and and all roads within the commonwealth should be privatized.
The larger more heavily traveled highways should be sold, and the proceeds should be used to eliminate taxes in the state for as long as possible. This would make PA a more desirable place for businesses and workers to relocate, and would have a huge stimulus effect on the state economy.
The smaller roads should be given to local co-ops, or local businesses to manage and maintain. This would work much like home owners associations take care of the roads in a residential development, or the way mall parking lots are maintained.
In both instances, the new road owners and operators would be completely responsible for maintaining the roads and bridges. They would derive income from either tolls, advertising revenue. Additionally local business owners could pull their resources as a co-operative to ensure their customers, goods and employees would have safe and free flowing passage to their doors.
Where there is a will there is a way. For business owners, a reduced tax rate would allow them to privately invest into the local infrastructure. With lower fuel rates resulting from removing the fuel taxes, drivers would be able to afford the occasional toll. In this scenario, people would be paying for what they use, and businesses would be paying for what directly benefits their company. This private solution would ensure that no tax monies were being wasted or abused, and the cost of travel would be reduced.
We can all see where we have gotten with the government solution. It is time to try something new in PA.
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